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July 27, 2009 1:37 PM PDT

Design ideas show Firefox 4.0 with a Chrome look

by Stephen Shankland
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This Firefox 4.0 mockup shows a very Chrome-like interface.

This Firefox 4.0 mockup shows a very Chrome-like interface.

(Credit: Mozilla)

Mozilla has released mockups that show how Firefox 4.0 conceivably might look, and two words spring to my mind: Google Chrome.

Last week, Mozilla showed some mockups for the nearer-term Firefox 3.7 that eliminated the browser's title bar, replacing it with two drop-down menu buttons on the right, just like Chrome has had since its September 2008 debut. The Firefox 4.0 mockups show two options, one similar to the 3.7 ideas, and the other taking another step in the Chrome direction.

Specifically, the second Firefox 4.0 mockup shows the browser tabs on top where once there was a window title bar. That's the same approach that Google picked with Chrome, a view of which you can see below.

Mozilla is looking for comment on the designs, which, the browser developer takes pains to note, are "for brainstorming/exploration" and aren't final.

Of the "more contentious Tabs-on-Top concept," Mozilla says advantages include that it saves vertical space and removes visual complexity. On the flip side, it's different, and moving user interface elements confuses people. Also on the negative side, the missing title bar means people see only a truncated Web page title in the tab.

For Firefox, putting tabs on top meshes conceptually with Electrolysis, aka Content Processes, an under-the-covers change that will make each tab a separate computing process. That carries potential performance, stability, and security advantages, but requires more memory.

The Firefox 4.0 mockups also show a combination button to the right of the address bar that changes behavior depending on what the browser is up to. The button can be used to start loading a page whose address has been typed, to stop loading if it's in the process of doing so, and to reload it if it's finished loading.

An example of Chrome's latest interface.

An example of Chrome's latest interface.

(Credit: Screenshot by Stephen Shankland/CNET)
Originally posted at Webware
Stephen Shankland writes about a wide range of technology and products, but has a particular focus on browsers and digital photography. He joined CNET News in 1998 and since then also has covered Google, Yahoo, servers, supercomputing, Linux and open-source software, and science. E-mail Stephen, or follow him on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/stshank.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (89 Comments)
by tipoo_ July 27, 2009 1:47 PM PDT
That image on top looks pretty slick, actualy.
Reply to this comment
by Mr. Dee July 27, 2009 4:42 PM PDT
An obvious mock up though, because the search button is from OS X, not Windows Vista/7 which the mock up is supposed to be based on. The Address bar needs some simplicity too.
by ca5ter July 27, 2009 4:58 PM PDT
I have cracker crumbs in my pocket. I think I'll bookmark them for later.
by ckh1272 July 28, 2009 6:22 AM PDT
"by Mr. Dee July 27, 2009 4:42 PM PDT<br />An obvious mock up though, because the search button is from OS X, not Windows Vista/7 which the mock up is supposed to be based on. The Address bar needs some simplicity too."<br /><br />And they couldn't possibly just replicate that search button now could they?? Pure genius &lt;sarcasm&gt;.
by twolf2919 July 27, 2009 2:04 PM PDT
I guess I'm one of the few people that hasn't actually tried Chrome (probably due to Chrome not being available on Linux initially), but isn't having this minimal title bar (in the snapshot it doesn't disappear entirely) make it harder to move the browser window around?
Reply to this comment
by CuttlefishTech July 27, 2009 2:20 PM PDT
Under Windows when maximized there is absolutely no title bar. However, when running in normal free-floating mode, the Chrome window gains title bar space equal to the height of the OS's native window controls. Chrome provides a fair bit more room to click and drag than this Firefox mockup does.
by Shankland July 27, 2009 2:43 PM PDT
It's no trouble for me to click and drag, but mostly I run my browser windows fully maximized so it's not something I do often. When I do, there's also plenty of grabbable real estate toward the upper right side. Your mileage may vary.
by jemiller0 July 27, 2009 3:30 PM PDT
I don't like it when apps try change the UI around like this. All Windows apps have a title bar. It's confusing for them not to have a title bar. I think they should focus on security instead of useless changes to the UI.
by jemiller0 July 27, 2009 3:32 PM PDT
Furthermore, Chrome on XP looks like Vista. In my opinion, it should look like the environment that it's running in.
by Meek-29 July 27, 2009 2:05 PM PDT
Anyone thinks Opera when he looks at that top picture ? <br />I do, and it make me sad
Reply to this comment
by jeromey.shannon July 27, 2009 2:16 PM PDT
hahahahaha. What a blatant rip-off.<br />Chrome is great. It's interface is what got me onto it. It's fast and minimalistic, like most of Google's designs. I actually uninstalled Firefox after Chrome got out of it's buggy start and started working on 64-bit systems. I think Mozilla is a little scared.
Reply to this comment
by ArchKaine July 27, 2009 2:30 PM PDT
Are you aware that Google Chrome is written using Mozilla code as a base? If not, I suggest you read up on it before you call it a rip-off. Also, consider that Google resubmits code to the main Mozilla Firefox code base. Get your facts straight before you rant about things you're not fully aware of.
by Mergatroid Mania July 27, 2009 2:57 PM PDT
I think he's refering to the rip off being the look, not the code.<br /><br />Google has come up with a certain look for Chrome. One I personally am not fond of, and I hope to heck that Mozilla does not go copying that look for FF.<br /><br />Skins are the way to go so people can make it look however they want.
by mattyc09 July 27, 2009 3:58 PM PDT
@ ArchKaine I could be mistaken, but IIRC Chrome is off the Webkit base and its own stuff while Firefox is based off Gecko. So if it was "ripping off" anyone there it would be Apple's Safari, but that would be a huge stretch since its just both using Webkit. <br /><br />Also I would imagine he was talking about the design, not the code base anyway...
by Shankland July 27, 2009 7:09 PM PDT
@ArchKaine: Chrome employs the WebKit rendering engine (also the basis of Safari) and Google's own V8 JavaScript engine. It's not based on Mozilla.
by pentest July 28, 2009 8:24 AM PDT
mmmmm Chrome, just what I need, more spyware.
by El_Segfaulto July 28, 2009 10:34 AM PDT
In some way, every redesign is going to rip off some look. The developers of Chrome obviously found a good UI and of course others are going to use their discoveries. I would love Chrome if only there was a simple way to get AdBlock. Until then I'm sticking with Firefox.
by queticomn July 28, 2009 7:43 PM PDT
Just remember all Thank the KDE team for getting webkit off the ground.<br /><br />The code that would become Webkit began in 1998 as the KDE project?s HTML layout engine KHTML and KDE's JavaScript engine (KJS). <br /><br />Cant wait to try KDE 4.3 on Linux.
by FF2009 July 27, 2009 2:30 PM PDT
looks freaking cool...better than Chrome design for sure.!
Reply to this comment
by the Otter July 27, 2009 2:33 PM PDT
That shot of Chrome is actually halfway decent. Not great, mind you, but halfway decent. The Firefox shot, though, is just plain ugly?must like Firefox has always been.<br /><br />Of course, Safari 4 beta also had tabs on top and ditched them in the GM because they sucked, but that?s primarily because Apple?s implementation was uncharacteristically lousy.
Reply to this comment
by albertsoler July 27, 2009 2:36 PM PDT
Does anyone else see the trend towards more of the browser's screen being dedicated to actual content?<br /><br />Toolbar developers should take note:<br /><br />"We hates toolbars! They takes up too much screen!"<br /><br />(As Smeagol would put it.)
Reply to this comment
by Mergatroid Mania July 27, 2009 2:54 PM PDT
I'm fine with the little tiny amount of screen realistate the menubar takes up at the top of the screen.<br /><br />Just what do you think you're going to fit in that little tiny space that's so important? I also like being able to SEE the options I use right in front of me without having to go looking for them. If you don't like them, then remove them. Most browsers have that ability.<br /><br />I would rather waste screen realistate (as you say) than waste my time looking for functions I use or need.
by james0071st July 28, 2009 9:24 AM PDT
If you want more content to be shown in you browser, I would invest in a BIGGER monitor. Unless you're one of those types who shuns desktops in favor of the laptop or netbook.. If that's the case then you just have to deal with it. Life sucks, get a helmet.
by SteveMcQwark August 5, 2009 4:54 PM PDT
Its more about screen clutter than actual space. Your eyes scan the screen as you work. The more clutter there is, the longer it takes for your brain to process what you are seeing. A minimal UI makes it easier to focus on what you are doing.
by srosenblatt July 27, 2009 2:48 PM PDT
Just out of curiosity, does anybody find the titlebar useful anymore?
Reply to this comment
by albertsoler July 27, 2009 3:04 PM PDT
Not since tabs were introduced.
by empirestatebuddy July 27, 2009 3:09 PM PDT
I like a Title bar. In an emergency, it's nice to know where to go. Although, admittedly, I don't use it much. Maybe one should be able to toggle it on or off.
by baconstang July 27, 2009 6:54 PM PDT
Since I started using tabbed browsing it's become redundant.
by ddesy July 28, 2009 5:50 AM PDT
Even with tabs, I still like the titlebar. It provides a handy reference to the current page being displayed, especially when the browser is minimized.
by Seaspray0 July 28, 2009 10:07 AM PDT
Yes, for me. But I also end up having to do alot of configuring on other people's browsers in a corporate environment. Even at home, I have no complaints about the title bar... it's still a quick way to access the underpinnings of the browser when changes are wanted.
by SX10 IS July 28, 2009 6:43 PM PDT
Need the title bar
by Mergatroid Mania July 27, 2009 2:49 PM PDT
Don't do it Mozilla team! Do you know how many of us have not downloaded Chrome because we're happy with Firefox the way it is? Please do not move or remove the menu bar, I use it ALL the time!<br /><br />Don't copy some other browsers look! We Firefox fans don't use chrome for a reason (a few actually), one of them being that we're happy with how FF looks!<br /><br />A better idea would be to allow people to use skins. We could then make FF look how ever we want it to look, and those of us who are happy with the current look can keep it the way it is. Those people who think the way a browser looks should be their deciding factor in which browser they use can down-load a skin to make it look like MSIE for all I care!<br /><br />I for one am tired of having to hunt for the common functions I use every time I update my software!<br /><br />Don't jump on the bandwagon and just copy the look of someone elses software the way other companies do (ahem...MS).<br /><br />After all, if you make it like Chrome, then why shouldn't we just use Chrome if we want that look?<br /><br />Would you buy a Mustang if it looked exactly like a Toyota Corolla or would you just buy the Corolla?
Reply to this comment
by Shankland July 27, 2009 7:11 PM PDT
If any browser is customizable, it's Firefox. I'm sure that even if Firefox offers this as the default option for 4.0 (and don't hold your breath for that arriving) there will be some option to use the older interface or some extension to restore it. So I wouldn't panic.
by phalco July 28, 2009 10:19 AM PDT
I agree completely. I tried Chrome but did not care for the bland,sterile appearance. And as far as the 2 tenths of a second faster that Chrome claims to load pages--so what? I am old enough to remember when it took days and possibly weeks to find and research the kind of material that is available almost instantly today.So,Firefox ,just keep on keeping on--we love it just as it is.
by 24notcen July 28, 2009 7:27 PM PDT
very funny that comparison and true !!! i tried google chrome , after 5 minutes i went back to firefox , goo.chr. is completly a nude browser with ******* !!
by selfkill July 29, 2009 9:14 AM PDT
I agree with the OP. Hopefully if the devs are smart they will make these interface changes a skin with the "old" skin we're all used to available as well. I stopped using Internet Explorer over Firefox long ago because I could customize Firefox's interface and the functionality the way I wanted to. If this is forced down our throats we might as well all start using Chrome or Opera. I don't just want another "me too!" browser, I want the plain old Firefox I'm used to.
by dwinks July 27, 2009 3:00 PM PDT
Seriously, what's with the negative comments? The only redeeming aspect of Chrome is it's minimalist title bar. I'd love to have the extra 20 pixels of space that Chrome gives me in Firefox. Sure, it's a "rip off" but then again, so is tabbed browsing, and address bar, etc etc. If it's a good idea (not needlessly wasting screen space is always a good idea), then implement it. <br /> <br />The first thing I do on every Firefox I use is install a mod to auto-hide the file menu, then rearrange the other bars to fit everything on the navigation bar, etc. I guess some people like having to scroll over and over and over and over every page they visit, I sure don't.
Reply to this comment
by albertsoler July 27, 2009 3:07 PM PDT
Yeah. The "Next' button always seems to be 20 pixels below the bottom of the screen.
by quirK July 28, 2009 9:32 AM PDT
Wow, so much exaggeration. Being anonymous on the web sure has its perks.
by d4nowar July 27, 2009 3:09 PM PDT
Very funny. Soon I can choose Mozilla Chrome or Google Chrome!
Reply to this comment
by tbbabq July 27, 2009 3:33 PM PDT
Today is the age of new technology, it is time for change and advancements.....People aren't willing to part from past layouts and enhancements, they would rather stick with old title and menu bars.....it is in most cases in our human nature to stick with familiarity and not change, most of us are scared of present changes and we are not willing to move on to bigger and better things, well since today is the age of new technology, I think it is great that Mozilla is willing to change what is old and turning it into the new, I actually like the new layout that they have shown here, I say go for it Mozilla....your new layout of your browser looks nice, practical and sleek....I say make these changes.
Reply to this comment
by pentest July 28, 2009 8:27 AM PDT
There is no new tech here. There is nothing tech-y about layouts.
by quirK July 28, 2009 9:34 AM PDT
Yeah, theme authors, compile these changes into a nifty theme for tbbabq to use!
by July 27, 2009 3:52 PM PDT
I see they've copied Internet Explorer's idiotic placement of the reload button far away from every other navigational button. Firefox just continues to get worse. I'm glad Opera still rocks as much as it always has.
Reply to this comment
by Shankland July 27, 2009 9:24 PM PDT
Bear in mind these are mock-ups and there were several ideas presented. Like or dislike the mockups as you wish, but they are designs meant to provoke discussion, not the final look.
by orlandorr July 27, 2009 4:09 PM PDT
Nooo! Not the title bar and the search field!!! :O
Reply to this comment
by redwall_hp July 27, 2009 4:48 PM PDT
What do they think they're doing? There's no menu bar! It's a basic UI feature that's been proven to work well. It's idiotic to put it under a Chrome-style button to the right of the location field.
Reply to this comment
by ddesy July 28, 2009 5:54 AM PDT
The removal of the menu bar, a long term staple of the GUI, seems to be a common thing these days. Instead of nice, simply text menus everyone is pushing more and more graphics. I've always dreaded the day this happens.<br /><br />Hopefully this idea gets left behind when they actually get past the mock-ups.
by ayeng98 July 27, 2009 4:54 PM PDT
HAH? Mozilla 4.0? just downloaded and upgraded to Mozilla 3.5 now theyre talking Mozilla 4.0 OMG turnover rate for browser tech nowadays are so fast that you cant hardly cope up!<br /><br />it all boils down to little tweek here and there and voila new version of a browser!
Reply to this comment
by knowles2 July 28, 2009 9:32 AM PDT
From what I understand 4.0 will not be out until middle of 2010 at the earliest, probably more like 2011 given the delays we have to endure for 3.5
by ArnoldKristopher July 27, 2009 5:06 PM PDT
I think this looks very nice!<br />I am actually pretty excited for this. I like when the browsers look simplistic and yet you know it will<br />still be pretty great/complex/customizable, considering it's Firefox.
Reply to this comment
by Smoaky July 27, 2009 5:08 PM PDT
I like Firefox GUI just the was it is thank you !!!!!<br />Now if 4.0 will give us all the themes then I might consider installing FF 4.0<br />If it is going to wind up looking like Chrome which IMHO looks like something out of the 70's then I will pass and go with something more modern looking like...OPERA??
Reply to this comment
by ibelieve01 July 27, 2009 5:16 PM PDT
That picture is almost a complete ripoff of Opera 10......not so much Chrome.
Reply to this comment
by a_flores July 28, 2009 1:33 AM PDT
Yes, you are right, except that Opera 10 keeps the title bar and does not have omnibar.
by dburr13 July 27, 2009 7:49 PM PDT
I like being able to see the menu bar all the time...I don't like having functions hidden for aesthetic purpose...Putting form over function can go too far...I don't use Chrome and i don't use Opera or IE either...Making Firefox more like them will not make me happy...
Reply to this comment
by FF2009 July 27, 2009 7:59 PM PDT
I like the menu bar visible too.....and I don't like the tabs on top like Chrome does.
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