February 26, 2009 2:03 PM PST

A first look at Safari 4 beta for Windows

by Seth Rosenblatt
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Safari's currently the third-most popular browser for Windows, but is Apple aiming for number two? The Safari 4 beta debuts a completely reworked program, from the Nitro JavaScript engine to the Chrome-styled interface and Top Sites.

Some users are already swearing by the faster speeds in the beta, while others won't touch a browser without extension support. Let us know your favorite browser and why in the comments.

Seth peers into the deep, dark corners of software so that you don't have to. He has yet to suffer a single nightmare about OS/2. You can follow him on Twitter.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (58 Comments)
by Mr. Dee February 26, 2009 2:29 PM PST
Could you remove that big ugly Apple MacBook Pro banner off your front page, its really a nuisance and Macs are over expensive x86 PC's.
Reply to this comment
by ewelch February 26, 2009 6:39 PM PST
Dee Dude,

Such bleating about Apple is the sure sign of a Microsoft sycophant. It weakens your argument. Try a different tack. Say something intelligent.
by kelmon February 26, 2009 10:39 PM PST
Mr. Dee, do you read what you write? Do you think that anyone is reading your comments and thinking, "what an insightful commenter Mr. Dee is"? This playground nonsense has no place in an adult discussion, particularly when it is not related to the article.
by emperordarius February 28, 2009 10:26 AM PST
1.No one cares about a lonely poor little windows fanboy like you. What you're saying won't make you look cool, just more miserable.
by BlitzBoy1120 March 2, 2009 5:40 AM PST
Seriously, nobody cares. Use AdBlock Plus and if that doesn't work, be quiet. It's really a nuisance that you have to be ruining a good article with your stupidity. You don't like Macs? Don't buy one...
by karpenterskids February 26, 2009 2:34 PM PST
For the moment, I use both Safari and Firefox, both for Mac.

Safari 4's really impressing me, though...if only it re-opened all my open tabs if/when the browser crashed, I'd make it my only browser, without hesitation.
Reply to this comment
by philrgessler February 26, 2009 3:48 PM PST
u can, when it crashes, just go to history in the top and click reopen all windows from last session, it will open ur last windows and tabs from last session
by karpenterskids February 27, 2009 12:14 PM PST
omgsh...you're right! :0

I think you just pushed me to switch to Safari 4 permanently. haha
by Argyll February 26, 2009 2:39 PM PST
Maybe someone can help me, but I can't find or figure out how to enable top sites on Safari for windows. It's not in the same place where it is on the Mac version - which is AWESOME!

Any ideas?
Reply to this comment
by danielmaui February 26, 2009 4:56 PM PST
Perhaps your PCs graphics card is not up to minimum requirements, so the option is not visible? Just a guess.
by ti99_forever February 26, 2009 2:43 PM PST
Safari 4 is a really nice upgrade. I really like the top sites, and the previews.
As Firefox has gotten more bloated (read: slow, buggy) I find myself using Safari more.

Safari and Camino are my two top browsers on my Mac. I use Firefox or Safari about evenly at work.

I'm not all *that* crazy about extensions - give me something like AdBlock (I use SafariBlock for Safari) and I'm happy.
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by danielwsmithee February 26, 2009 2:51 PM PST
It should be right in the same spot, it is on mine. Are you sure you have Safari 4 for windows instead of 3?
Reply to this comment
by Solaris_User February 26, 2009 3:09 PM PST
Remember, if you want ad blocking you can always use privoxy.. it works with every browser.
Reply to this comment
by shellcodes_coder February 26, 2009 3:24 PM PST
Mine is def. Firefox 3. I might try Chrome in the future but for now Firefox is the best
Reply to this comment
by kcotham February 26, 2009 3:29 PM PST
I can't comment on the Windows version, but it is definitely faster on a Mac. I also noticed that the size of the application has been greatly reduced. The Leopard version has been reduced from 67.3MB for version 3 to 13.4MB for version 4.

Other than the very un-Mac-like UI of Safari 4PB, the program seems to work faster and be very stable. I've only encountered one site that didn't like it, live.com. Big surprise, it's a Micro$oft site. I could not get the "new" message button to work in Safari 4 PB. Undoubtedly, it's because Micro$oft is using some non-standard code.
Reply to this comment
by IanX211 February 27, 2009 7:24 AM PST
of course it's going to be fast on a Mac.
You can't compare the version on the Mac to the version on Windows. It's like comparing the speed of IE on Windows to IE on Mac.
by lkrupp February 26, 2009 3:44 PM PST
The ad-block crowd will get their wish someday soon. Every web site will charge a fee for access. Without ad revenue web sites will have choice but to charge visitors for access. The internet will no longer exist in its current form, It will be for paying customers only.

Be careful what you wish for.
Reply to this comment
by tm_anon February 27, 2009 1:17 AM PST
We're already paying to use it. My monthly bill for DSL is pretty steep just to be assaulted with advertisements constantly. I've gone into sites playing video and had video advertisements which ruined what I was watching. I've gone into sites with text and had advertisements which floated over the text I'm trying to read until I close it. I've come across sites where the embedded advertisements were used as portals for installing malware of all kinds.

I'm not against a website making money, I'm against it annoying me while infesting my computer with malware while I pay for the "privilege".

There are ways to advertise which make sense. Some of the podcasts I watch regularly have sponsored advertisements which work with the show. If CNet had tech related advertisements rather than weight loss ads, I'd actually look at those and enjoy them. Text based ads next to a video, even silent, flash-based ads next to the video and I would glance over, read the ad while the video loaded, maybe even be interested without being annoyed.

The adblock crowd isn't looking for no advertisements ever. At least, not all of us. We're just looking for a little sanity.
by queticomn February 26, 2009 4:04 PM PST
@IKrupp People already pay for WWW access already. Now some internet service providers are placing caps on monthly downloads. Why should us paying WWW users have to pay to see someone's add? If websites want to to charge for access let them.

For Seth Rosenblatt Quote "from the Nitro JavaScript engine to the Chrome-styled interface and Top Sites. "

Excuse me, can you say Opera. Safari and Chrome's interface are a complete rip of Opera speed dial. Lets give credit where credit is do.
Reply to this comment
by random truth February 26, 2009 6:59 PM PST
You have to pay for cable and their is lots of ads on tv. Your point does not hold water.
by TigaAyes February 27, 2009 4:02 AM PST
Newspapers main revenue stream used to come from ads. Classified ads were often called "rivers of gold".

Quality magazines are full of glossy ad's for things that most of us will never be able to afford. But those ads are often pleasant to look at. When you're next at a news-stand just flick through a copy of Vanity Fair and take a look at the jewellery, perfume and other luxury good ads.

I've yet to see a web ad that is worth looking at for even a microsecond on account of its aesthetic merit, or indeed any other merit.

Why can't we have some classy ads on the web, even tho' I'll never buy one, I'd much rather see a slick ad for a Maserati, than some turgid rubbish about Dell PCs or yet more employment agency staff clapping their hands with glee as the dole queues lengthen with each passing day.
by jake3373 February 28, 2009 6:12 PM PST
at least TV and newspaper ads never give you malware
by srosenblatt February 26, 2009 4:51 PM PST
@Argyll and others having problems: You must have a recent or new graphics card (a DX9 or newer, I remember reading on one forum) to see the new features like Top Sites. Safari will not display a warning explaining why these have been disabled.

@queticomn: I know that Speed Dial originated with Opera, but it's been around for long enough that plenty of other browsers use it. I don't cite Safari every time I mention cache-disabled browsing, even though they got to it years ago. It'd be a mighty long video if I cited which company originated which innovation for every major browser development, but since Chome is new and the until now the only other browser that natively sports the top-level tabs I figured it was worth a mention.
Reply to this comment
by queticomn February 26, 2009 5:10 PM PST
That may be so, C-net has been Notorious for excluding Opera in browser discussions. Chrome is not new anymore as far as i know, an it takes seconds to give credit.
Reply to this comment
by nickshanks February 26, 2009 5:13 PM PST
Safari isn't the 3rd most used browser on WIndows. According to NetApplications, the order for Windows is: IE, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, Safari.
On the Macintosh it is: Safari, Firefox/Camino/Flock, Opera
Reply to this comment
by kelmon February 27, 2009 12:14 AM PST
Who cares? I have very limited appreciation of browser usage statistics given that each company measuring it seems to produce different results and none can actually claim to be definitive. All that is really important is the browser that you yourself use, or those that you know your customers are trying to use.

Still, I admit surprise at the notion that Safari is the 3rd most popular browser under Windows.
by IanX211 February 27, 2009 7:20 AM PST
The reason why Safari is the 3rd most common for Windows is that most "survey of browser-usage" list Opera and Chrome as "Other."

Therefore, its
IE, FireFox, Other, Safari

However, you are correct that Safari isn't the 3rd most used browser on Windows. I never saw anybody used Safari for Windows besides those that already own a Mac and like to use the same software, as much as they can, on Windows.
by seven7dust February 27, 2009 1:27 PM PST
@ IanX211
I use Safari 3.1.1 on my Ancient Xp machine all the time
you'd be surprised by how fast and memory efficient it is
not to mention how user friendly the interface is
even without extension it does half the stuff FF could do !

but Safari 4 just plain sux, nobody should use it on a Windows machine !
by MafiaPenguin February 27, 2009 7:44 PM PST
@seven7dust:
I tried Safari 3 on my 3-yr-old Dell and it...... was..... very.... slow.... to... do.... anything.... including.... go.... to.... the.... apple.... start.... page, and wasn't good on RAM or processor.

Now, I'm not saying Apple makes bad products, but their Windows software isn't up to par with their OS X software, just as MS's OS X software isn't up to par with their Windows SW.
MS Office 2004 + 2008 aren't fast on the Macs @ school (1GB RAM, 125GHz Intel processor), and Office 2003 on my Dell (1 GB RAM, 1.86 GHz processor) is nice and fast.
by jake3373 February 28, 2009 6:16 PM PST
why is IE at the top? it isn't really better than any of the other ones - it just comes with almost everyone's computer (if they use windows) so they use it because they don't know of an alternative.
I use Firefox, and Chrome if i'm in a hurry.
by shoupz23 February 26, 2009 6:23 PM PST
I just downloaded safari4 today and i would rate it numba 1 browser out their! fast, easy everyuthing i love. i used google chrome now i love safari 4!!!!!! best browser for windows!
Reply to this comment
by IanX211 February 27, 2009 7:34 AM PST
a typical comment from a mac fanboy. You could at least give reasons why you like Safari besides "it's fast and easy." Opera and Chrome are fast and easy, yet no one is going to try it because I said so. FireFox is too buggy for me, yet no one is going to stop using FireFox because of me.

JoshuaVining's post (about the render speed and passing the acid test) is a much better reason for me, and others, to try Safari for Windows.
by seven7dust February 27, 2009 2:05 PM PST
@shoupz23
if you like safari 4 so much
you should give safari 3.1.1 a try
it's a much much better version.... IMO safari 4 sux

@IanX211
I was a long time Opera user who switched to Safari on windows
more than a year back
{believe it or not Safari was the primary reason I started giving Apple a chance and eventually Bought a macbook }
FF has always been a bloated browser to me,
So I never bothered with it too much,So I can't comment on that !

Give Safari v3.1.1 a try the new version sux in comparison !
safari is all about usability over features
opera and firefox have more features but safari is more usable ,atleast IMO !
till Apple bring back the old OSX elements to the Safari I'll be using v3.1.1 on my XP machine,
by TigaAyes February 27, 2009 4:24 AM PST
I can't see how Safari is number 3, I don't think it'ill ever get to number 2, at least not in my lunchtime.

Why do folks care so much about ***** browsers anyway, especially as they are all more-or-less free-ish and more-or-less the same; where I live the network and servers are the main limits on the speed of web access, not the #### browser.

It's reminiscent of the endless arguments about 123, Visicalc, Quattro and Excel in pre-historic times, hands up all those who can remember Javelin - they can all go home, it's past their bed time.
Reply to this comment
by JoshuaVining February 27, 2009 6:10 AM PST
I have to report a great experience , i am a graphic and web designer so i am on a bunch of platforms and use a bunch of browsers .... and Safari 4 is definitely impressing me . Render speeds like no other , compliance like hell wont have it . AND it passes the acid three test , with flying colors . Most others take quite a while , and IE 8 Rc1 doesn't always complete the test . Over all i am going to continue to make Safari 4 my primary .
Reply to this comment
by seven7dust February 27, 2009 2:43 PM PST
as a Windows Safari 3 user
I'm personally Very disappointed in Safari 4 for windows
at first I thought it was a great improvement
because on the Mac side ,it really is
but the windows Port is total crap !

First of there r too many borrowed elements brought into the mix
If I wanted chrome like UI I'll be using the original
not some flashy knock-off

Secondly it's a ungodly ram hog which uses more than 300 MB
just for a 5-10 tabs, thats totally unacceptable IMO
The old 3.1.1 version was Very efficient at memory management
I have about 80-90 tabs open in general and it uses only about
300 MB of Ram , so the new version blows in comparison !

Finally the new windows interface looks like total crap
it's neither Completely Aqua nor windows
it's looks like a unfinished rip-off !
the UI has been made more space efficient but is not user friendly
and requires more effort on the user's part to get things done
and it looks crappy too ,something not reminiscent of Apple products !

the only plus points r the most used sites and
Cover flow history search features
also the browsing speed has definitely been improved
But I've never generally cared for the speed of a Browser
cause a second here or there will hardly make a difference IMO

In general
Safari 3.1.1 is so much better than this crap
it's probably the first time I ever used Crap to describe a Apple product
having said all this, it's funny how
on the mac side it's actually a good improvement
but thats only after hacking to get back the old tabs UI !
Reply to this comment
by arth700 February 28, 2009 1:51 AM PST
It uses too much memory and processor time
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by pando85 February 28, 2009 2:04 AM PST
I installed it on my vista machine and I like it a lot, I set up my top list easily, runs faster (although speed wasn't an issue for me) and it feels open and clean. But I cannot get live.com or live webmail to work for the life of me. Links do not even work/respond, live e-mail is inoperable with safari 4. Also a lot of the real estate MLS sites do not load properly or have things in the wrong places, log-ins don't work. I love Apple design, and the way Safari runs but my email has got to be functional at least. I hate pointing fingers especially because I have no insight on the coding details, but most all other browsers I have used play nice with live.com. Best regards!
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by rick hutchinson February 28, 2009 7:11 AM PST
Some neat features;some of which can also be found in Opera.Slow to load.Crashed after 5 minutes of use and wouldn't re-open. Got rid of Safari just like Opera.I'm staying With Firefox;it doesn't crash and loads faster and is very customizable.
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